Anybody actually played it yet? (possible spoilers)


Topic author
Bifrons
Donator
Donator
Posts: 93
Joined: Jun 24, 2009 1:21 pm
Status: Offline

Oct 14, 2013 9:49 pm

I have. And Ellen is great in it, of course. Her best and most compelling work in years. But I wish I could find more positive things to say about this game. Apart from the acting, the game simply doesn't perform. Just the tiniest closer look reveals an utter lack of player choice and agency (exactly the things David Cage promised). 99% of choices are totally inconsequential and many scenes (even some action-scenes) play out regardless of your input. You invariably end up in the next scene with no advantages or disadvantages depending on your previous actions (or lack thereof). Once noticed, this guided linearity ruins the "interactive" part of things.
To make matters worse, there is even only one ending. Every ending you might choose gets superceded by the "real" ending, thus rendering your choice moot. It fels like a slap in the face...
User avatar

plexus
True Ellen Page Fan
True Ellen Page Fan
Posts: 251
Joined: Oct 27, 2010 1:43 pm
Status: Offline

Oct 15, 2013 2:12 pm

Bifrons wrote:... the game simply doesn't perform. Just the tiniest closer look reveals an utter lack of player choice and agency (exactly the things David Cage promised). 99% of choices are totally inconsequential and many scenes (even some action-scenes) play out regardless of your input. [...] thus rendering your choice moot.
I haven't played it, yet. I plan to even after your complaints. But I don't like this type of game, anyway. I just want to play it because of Ellen and I'll probably suck at it.

OT: Extra Credits made two great videos on the subject of 'choice' and 'agency':
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45PdtGDGhac
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0RFoGvkQfs
Beware! Reading jeopardizes stupidity!
User avatar

Dominik
Webmaster
Webmaster
Posts: 1067
Joined: Nov 14, 2008 12:23 am
Location: Baden-Baden
Contact:
Status: Offline

Oct 15, 2013 11:52 pm

I just started playing yesterday and finished the "Dinner/Date" chapter this evening, so I don't want to make a final statement. But I kind of agree with Bifrons' estimation at the present moment. Although you can do or not do certain things at different situations within the story or give different answers during the conversations with other characters, it somehow doesn't feel like that you can change something in a major way. I know this is complaining on a high level - but why can Aiden only move specific items or break only certain glass windows (level in the laboratory basement)? Or take the scene in the bar (Jodie's gothic and rebellious period) for example. I believe the confrontation with the two guys is unavoidable since you can't leave the location and you will play billard with them no matter if you accept or decline the challenge. The only choice you have is whether you kill them or allow them to escape. One possibility would have been to let the gamer leave the bar, which will start a new level on the road or at another location. In other words, I would have liked it if the choices you make have an impact on the actual levels you get to play - at least at certain points of the story. This means that there are alternative chapters and more than one storyline.

Besides, I already found a minor bug in regard to the continuity. In the level "The First Night" where Jodie just arrived at the research facility, I took the plush bunny out of the suitcase and put it on the bed. When Jodie lays down in the next cut, the bunny is gone. And while the German subtitles are quite good, I don't get how "miracle" can become "magician" ("Homeless") :D.
There's nothing to fear, nothing to doubt.
Nothing is true, everything is permitted.
User avatar

CyberGhostface
Potential EP Fan
Potential EP Fan
Posts: 33
Joined: Mar 30, 2011 5:40 am
Status: Offline

Oct 16, 2013 4:23 am

I'm only up to the desert chapter (so please no unmarked spoilers) but I've been enjoying it a lot. I got it mainly for Ellen but I find it to be an interesting story so far and a fun game. My only issue is that outside of Ellen some of the characters don't look that good.

Topic author
Bifrons
Donator
Donator
Posts: 93
Joined: Jun 24, 2009 1:21 pm
Status: Offline

Oct 16, 2013 11:34 am

@ plexus:
You won't be able to suck at this game, that's kinda my point also. It's more difficult to find a fail condition in Beyond than to not die in something like Dark Souls.
Great links, btw. They're totally ON topic.

@ Dominik:
The 'bar scene' is actually the only one I found to fall into that 1%-category. It's completely optional. You can fail to escape from the base and end the chapter before ever seeing the bar. Or you can leave the bar at a later point (before something bad happens), ending the chapter there. Wether you stay in the bar until the end or not, then impacts the possible outcome of the dinner chapter in an emotionally meaningful way. A perfect example of how I expected most of this game to be.
User avatar

Jessevolanti1976
Potential EP Fan
Potential EP Fan
Posts: 25
Joined: Sep 30, 2013 7:30 am
Location: California
Contact:
Status: Offline

Oct 18, 2013 4:50 am

I just finished all trophies including the Platinum :totalhappy:
Feeling really stoked. If there is anyone stuck I would love to help you out.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Everyday is a new day - we can change our past - look forward to a better tomorrow ✌
User avatar

Jessevolanti1976
Potential EP Fan
Potential EP Fan
Posts: 25
Joined: Sep 30, 2013 7:30 am
Location: California
Contact:
Status: Offline

Oct 18, 2013 4:56 am

I have one more trophie to get before I hit platinum.

-- Oct 17, 2013 7:56 pm --
Dominik wrote:I just started playing yesterday and finished the "Dinner/Date" chapter this evening, so I don't want to make a final statement. But I kind of agree with Bifrons' estimation at the present moment. Although you can do or not do certain things at different situations within the story or give different answers during the conversations with other characters, it somehow doesn't feel like that you can change something in a major way. I know this is complaining on a high level - but why can Aiden only move specific items or break only certain glass windows (level in the laboratory basement)? Or take the scene in the bar (Jodie's gothic and rebellious period) for example. I believe the confrontation with the two guys is unavoidable since you can't leave the location and you will play billard with them no matter if you accept or decline the challenge. The only choice you have is whether you kill them or allow them to escape. One possibility would have been to let the gamer leave the bar, which will start a new level on the road or at another location. In other words, I would have liked it if the choices you make have an impact on the actual levels you get to play - at least at certain points of the story. This means that there are alternative chapters and more than one storyline.

Besides, I already found a minor bug in regard to the continuity. In the level "The First Night" where Jodie just arrived at the research facility, I took the plush bunny out of the suitcase and put it on the bed. When Jodie lays down in the next cut, the bunny is gone. And while the German subtitles are quite good, I don't get how "miracle" can become "magician" ("Homeless") :D.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Everyday is a new day - we can change our past - look forward to a better tomorrow ✌

Topic author
Bifrons
Donator
Donator
Posts: 93
Joined: Jun 24, 2009 1:21 pm
Status: Offline

Oct 19, 2013 8:18 pm

@ Jessevolanti1976
Trophy hunter, eh?
I only ever hunted trophies for Demon's Souls and The Last Of Us. Platinum Trophies for these games came really easy because most trophies followed the game design organically.
But I've given up trying to platinum this game. Many trophies actually work against the essence or spirit of the game. They highlight the fact that your decisions don't matter. Play Aiden as an uncontrollable poltergeist or as an obedient lap-dog: Jodie's character development is unaffected. Save your friends and loved ones or let them die: Jodie's character development is unaffected. Sure, there might be one or two altered lines of dialog later in the same chapter but once a new chapter starts, it's all the same...

Man, I must seem unreasonably bitter. But for me this is not nitpicking but a fundamental flaw for this type of game. I've enjoyed watching other people play, more than actually playing myself. I'm now convinced the game would have worked better as a normal movie. Unlike The Last Of Us, for example. But let's not talk about my favorite game of all time (I wouldn't be able to stop again)...

How about some favorite scenes.
I particularly liked slow and subdued character moments. Most plot-heavy or unearned sentimental scenes rather put me off. Three of my favorites:
- Jodie singing 'Lost Cause' by Beck (Homeless)
Sentimental to be sure, I just couldn't fathom why she would be SO desperately depressed in this chapter. But Ellen's rendition of the song is irresistably effective.
- Jodie trying to lie her way past the guard (Like other girls)
Some much-needed levity. The tone of the whole game is rather oppressive. I found it to get tiresome really quickly.
- the whole Dinner scene
Again, a glimpse of lightness. But undermined by Ryan's ridiculously calloused behaviour in the chapter right before...
User avatar

Dominik
Webmaster
Webmaster
Posts: 1067
Joined: Nov 14, 2008 12:23 am
Location: Baden-Baden
Contact:
Status: Offline

Oct 20, 2013 2:26 pm

Bifrons wrote:The 'bar scene' is actually the only one I found to fall into that 1%-category. It's completely optional. You can fail to escape from the base and end the chapter before ever seeing the bar. Or you can leave the bar at a later point (before something bad happens), ending the chapter there. Wether you stay in the bar until the end or not, then impacts the possible outcome of the dinner chapter in an emotionally meaningful way. A perfect example of how I expected most of this game to be.
Since I finished the first run of the game on Wednesday, I have to revise some thoughts and statements. You can indeed influence certain things, but it's often not evident in the first instance.
► Show Spoiler
To be honest, when I saw that the bar was almost empty and the friends she was looking for were there, my first action was to leave the location. But Jodie won't open the door at that time and replies she want to wait for the others to arrive. So I guess you can only leave the bar after you have ordered the drink. This is not necessarily logical to me though. Furthermore, I can imagine that not many player will try to do the same thing twice. In this case the above mentioned event is almost unavoidable.
I believe you can only realize the game's full potential and glory when you are playing it several times while making different things and decisions - although this is not what David Cage has in mind for us. After I played "Beyond" myself, I can't understand why he made this statement. Is he afraid that we might find more and more plot holes or come to the conclusion that some choice have no influcence or impact on the whole game at all. I can see that he wants people to talk about their own experience and share their course of history with others. But at the same time, gamers should be encouraged to play it a second or even a third time in order to experience new dialogues, situations and, most importantly, endings.
"Beyond: Two Souls" is a good or maybe even a great and trend-setting game nonetheless. But it's definitely wasting some potential when it comes to real interactivity and gameplay.
Bifrons wrote:Trophy hunter, eh?
I only ever hunted trophies for Demon's Souls and The Last Of Us. Platinum Trophies for these games came really easy because most trophies followed the game design organically.
But I've given up trying to platinum this game. Many trophies actually work against the essence or spirit of the game. They highlight the fact that your decisions don't matter. Play Aiden as an uncontrollable poltergeist or as an obedient lap-dog: Jodie's character development is unaffected. Save your friends and loved ones or let them die: Jodie's character development is unaffected. Sure, there might be one or two altered lines of dialog later in the same chapter but once a new chapter starts, it's all the same...
Well, same problem here. If you only play the game once, you can't get all trophies - that's a matter of fact. Considering David Cage's statement, is this a design error?! :p
Bifrons wrote:Man, I must seem unreasonably bitter. But for me this is not nitpicking but a fundamental flaw for this type of game. I've enjoyed watching other people play, more than actually playing myself. I'm now convinced the game would have worked better as a normal movie. Unlike The Last Of Us, for example. But let's not talk about my favorite game of all time (I wouldn't be able to stop again)...
Just a couple of words concerning "The Last Of Us". Since it was included in the PS3 bundle I bought, I started playing it this week. All I can say is: Great atmospshere, cinematic sequences + way of storytelling, gameplay and characters. I'm just at the second chapter now (in the town hall), but I already felt in love with Ellie. Normally such teenage characters are nothing but annoying, but she is a tough, smart and ultimately sympathetic girl. I can only speak for myself, but as a gamer you immediately have the instinct/desire to protect her and make sure she is safe. In general, I start to see why TLOS is said to be one of the best PS3 games available :)
Bifrons wrote:Again, a glimpse of lightness. But undermined by Ryan's ridiculously calloused behaviour in the chapter right before...
:yes: Yeah, his extremely rude and cold behaviour when he picks up Jodie at the research facility killed it for me, too. At the same time, Ryan knowingly used her during the mission in Africa (no spoilers here ;)). Okay, orders are orders, but his sorrows and regrets came a little late in my opinion. That's why I went with Jay in the first run :cheekygrin: :twinkle:
There's nothing to fear, nothing to doubt.
Nothing is true, everything is permitted.

Topic author
Bifrons
Donator
Donator
Posts: 93
Joined: Jun 24, 2009 1:21 pm
Status: Offline

Oct 21, 2013 4:44 pm

You mentioned The Last Of Us...
Must... resist...
...can't.
For me, TLOU is the pinnacle of interactive storytelling. I was never more immersed or emotionally invested in a videogame. Once you internalize the controls and move around the game space without thinking, you simply become Joel or at least understand him, even if you don't agree with his decisions. This total immersion is extremely rare and the absolutely unique aspect of the interactive medium. And something sorely lacking in David Cage's games...

I recently heard that Ellen only worked 4 weeks on Beyond. If true, this would be utterly incredible. I'd better get over my misgivings about David Cage's confused philosophies on game development and appreciate the beautiful and honest aspects of the created content more. Ellen's grounded and sincere performance certainly deserves it.
User avatar

SinnerAlbion
EP - Beginner
EP - Beginner
Posts: 108
Joined: Oct 14, 2013 6:29 am
Status: Offline

Oct 21, 2013 11:54 pm

Well, although Beyond has its flaws, I still think it was a great game, in general. I see Beyond as a much more ambitious project than Heavy Rain, so I can understand some little flaws here and there. The Last Of Us was also a great game, and as happened with Dominik, I was fascinated by Ellie. However, the main reason for having an instinct to protect her, in my case, was because she reminded me a lot of Ellen, even though Ellie was not played by her. Her figure just kept me thinking of Ellen all the time. An awesome character by itself, nonetheless. The only things that bugged me about the game were the A.I. - I can understand Ellie being seen by the enemies would blow your cover everytime, but still, her being ignored by them is not something nice to see - and the ending, which I have mixed feelings about (it wasn't a bad ending, but rather inconclusive if you ask me). Overall, both games are among the best ones in the whole PS3 era for me.
Last edited by SinnerAlbion on Oct 26, 2013 6:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
If we don't all pull together, then stop the world, I wanna get off...
User avatar

Leon123
EP - Beginner
EP - Beginner
Posts: 62
Joined: Jul 21, 2013 10:03 pm
Status: Offline

Oct 22, 2013 11:19 am

► Show Spoiler
No real spoilers but I wanna be sure.
Not Today!
User avatar

SinnerAlbion
EP - Beginner
EP - Beginner
Posts: 108
Joined: Oct 14, 2013 6:29 am
Status: Offline

Oct 23, 2013 1:28 am

Yeah, the whole Ryan relationship probably felt a little forced to the players. While we can assume Jodie might have had time to grow an affection towards him (considering they spent a lot of time together in other situations not shown in the game), we didn't really have much time to start caring about Ryan. Maybe they should have made the game longer, with some more development into it. However, it could feel as if the game was stretching more than it was supposed to. Kinda hard to reach a conclusion.
If we don't all pull together, then stop the world, I wanna get off...

Topic author
Bifrons
Donator
Donator
Posts: 93
Joined: Jun 24, 2009 1:21 pm
Status: Offline

Oct 23, 2013 7:52 pm

Ryan in Beyond: Two Souls
► Show Spoiler
The ending of TLOU
► Show Spoiler
I tried to be as spoiler-free as possible...
User avatar

SinnerAlbion
EP - Beginner
EP - Beginner
Posts: 108
Joined: Oct 14, 2013 6:29 am
Status: Offline

Oct 24, 2013 1:06 am

It was a nice ending, there's more to it than meets the eye. It's just that it seemed a little anti-climatic... I don't know, maybe I'm just talking shit here... :lol2:
If we don't all pull together, then stop the world, I wanna get off...
User avatar

WhiteGlint
EP - Beginner
EP - Beginner
Posts: 56
Joined: Oct 29, 2013 8:44 pm
Status: Offline

Oct 31, 2013 1:41 am

► Show Spoiler
Beyond is one of my game highlights this year. I agree it has its flaws, like the already mentioned low impact of failed QTE during the fighting scenes, but the story was wonderful, which makes me forgive the game's flaws.
I had to think a lot of a loved one who passed away last year while playing Beyond: Two Souls (especially during "Homeless").
Well, even though I have my personal background here, I believe if a movie or game can move you, it was a success. At least at some level.
Who'll stop the rain?
User avatar

Dominik
Webmaster
Webmaster
Posts: 1067
Joined: Nov 14, 2008 12:23 am
Location: Baden-Baden
Contact:
Status: Offline

Oct 31, 2013 8:06 am

WhiteGlint wrote:
► Show Spoiler
► Show Spoiler
There's nothing to fear, nothing to doubt.
Nothing is true, everything is permitted.
User avatar

WhiteGlint
EP - Beginner
EP - Beginner
Posts: 56
Joined: Oct 29, 2013 8:44 pm
Status: Offline

Oct 31, 2013 8:59 pm

Dominik wrote:
WhiteGlint wrote:
► Show Spoiler
► Show Spoiler
Looks like i have to do some things differently the next time i play it. Plenty of decisions to make as there are supposed to be 24 different endings of the game.
I think most of them are small changes, different scenes during the epilogue, which depend on some choices the player made during the last chapter.

Does anyone have the additional content "Advanced Experiments"? Is it worth buying?

edit: Is it even possible to buy it afterwards?
Who'll stop the rain?

Topic author
Bifrons
Donator
Donator
Posts: 93
Joined: Jun 24, 2009 1:21 pm
Status: Offline

Nov 02, 2013 4:31 pm

Advanced Experiments
Don't worry, totally not worth it. It's a simple CIA training course. No narrative whatsoever. You need to finish in a certain amount of time. Most people will have to go twice. Thus arriving at 20+10=30 minutes of playtime.

24 different endings
Yup. That number refers to the little vignettes that play during the epilogue. You "only" have to finish the game in 8 different ways to see all endings. You'll need to play twice from 'Homeless' either saving or killing everyone. On top of that you'll need to replay 'Black Sun' and the epilogue 3 times respectively. Feels like David Cage is trolling trophy hunters...
User avatar

WhiteGlint
EP - Beginner
EP - Beginner
Posts: 56
Joined: Oct 29, 2013 8:44 pm
Status: Offline

Nov 03, 2013 12:38 am

Thank you.
Sounds like i saved money and didn't miss anything important.
Who'll stop the rain?
Post Reply