Page 2 of 3

Spoilers within

Posted: Aug 25, 2010 9:19 pm
by JimH
Dominik wrote: Next question; Cobb wakes up unattached to Saito, which means the PASIV device has apparently been removed by the stewardess a while ago. Probably to make sure Fischer jr. didn't see it. But is it possible to "share" a dream with someone if there is no dream machine connecting you. I think this question has never been answered throughout the movie. Perhaps it was Saito's projection of Cobb who convinced him to take a "leap of faith"
This is another inconsistency which brings into doubt that the plane flight is actually reality, our real time reference. I think there was also a very odd "feel" after Cobb and the team "woke up" on the plane. They were all silent and no longer acted like they had a strong relationship with each other. They almost casually went their separate ways. Kind of odd, given what they had supposedly been through together :yellowink:

Spoilers within

Posted: Aug 25, 2010 9:23 pm
by GiveHimTheKick
With the time factor, they did indeed just wait it out. We saw everyone except Saito and Cobb on the edge of the river drying off so I assume they just hung around for a bit.

The reason Saito and Cobb knew the Inception was a success however, was that everyone was so calm when they woke up. If they had failed, not only would Fischer be very suspicious of the people around him, or maybe even hostile, but Ariadne and Eames and Arthur etc, wouldn't have smiled at him. Saito seems to have already woken up before Cobb so he already knows it worked.

A lot of the rest of it I think we just have to put down to the fact that it is infact a movie and nothing else. Like for instance, one you didn't mention, when they are all sitting by the side of the river drying off after escaping from the van, Fischer just sits there, even though he thinks he's been kidnapped. He doesn't try and run or anything. There's about a million different ways we could probably interpret this but it is indeed a movie.

And for the record, the chances are Cobb would take his children and re-locate somewhere safe.

Spoilers within

Posted: Aug 25, 2010 9:31 pm
by HeartHer
JimH wrote:
Dominik wrote: Next question; Cobb wakes up unattached to Saito, which means the PASIV device has apparently been removed by the stewardess a while ago. Probably to make sure Fischer jr. didn't see it. But is it possible to "share" a dream with someone if there is no dream machine connecting you. I think this question has never been answered throughout the movie. Perhaps it was Saito's projection of Cobb who convinced him to take a "leap of faith"
This is another inconsistency which brings into doubt that the plane flight is actually reality, our real time reference. I think there was also a very odd "feel" after Cobb and the team "woke up" on the plane. They were all silent and no longer acted like they had a strong relationship with each other. They almost casually went their separate ways. Kind of odd, given what they had supposedly been through together :yellowink:
Once in limbo I'm pretty sure you're there regardless of whether you are still connected in the dream. Once you're stuck there you're stuck in whatever subconscious you ended up in. If that wasn't the way it worked there would be no need to worry at all about ending up in limbo because you could just unplug the machine.

They acted detached because to Fischer's knowledge they were all just random passengers, showing that they knew each other was probably a great way to completely blow their cover. You saw them all smiling at each other, they had been brought together by the mission and were completely stoked about having succeeded despite all the difficulties, but they just couldn't give it away. There's no evidence that they wouldn't contact each other later.

I still maintain it was reality, the top wobbled a ton and you can hear it fall, Nolan just didn't show it as a way to make you think and doubt it was. Pretty clever if you ask me.

Spoilers within

Posted: Aug 25, 2010 9:47 pm
by JimH
GiveHimTheKick wrote: A lot of the rest of it I think we just have to put down to the fact that it is infact a movie and nothing else. Like for instance, one you didn't mention, when they are all sitting by the side of the river drying off after escaping from the van, Fischer just sits there, even though he thinks he's been kidnapped. He doesn't try and run or anything. There's about a million different ways we could probably interpret this but it is indeed a movie.

And for the record, the chances are Cobb would take his children and re-locate somewhere safe.
OK - but just to harp on "what is reality" here, how does Michael Cane's character know to meet Cobb as he checks into the airport? He happens to be in the US (but normally lives & works in Paris) and he knows which airport to be at and the time too :rolleye:

Spoilers within

Posted: Aug 26, 2010 12:31 am
by Glee Plane
Dominik wrote:I guess Saito is a very powerful man and able to fix Cobb's legal problems with a simple call. Who knows, maybe he makes some files of the inquiry go missing or simply buy a judgment. But what's up with the people who know what happened, probably still assume Cobb is Mal's murder or hunt him for several reasons like the people from corporations around the world. He has no evidences to proof his innocence, can't make them change their minds or undo what he did in the past years (steal ideas from others). Even if he is with his children again, is this really a happy ending? Is he able to begin a new life without being afraid that antagonists find him one day?
I think we can assume that Cobb is experienced enough to hide from antagonists if necessary. Before boarding the helicopter in Japan, Cobb told Arthur that he was going to "lay low" in Buenos Aires.
JimH wrote:OK - but just to harp on "what is reality" here, how does Michael Cane's character know to meet Cobb as he checks into the airport? He happens to be in the US (but normally lives & works in Paris) and he knows which airport to be at and the time too
Cobb's team planned the entire Fischer job in the warehouse in Paris. When they heard about Maurice Fischer's death, they had to fly to Sydney then fly to Los Angeles. Cobb could have arranged for Miles to meet him in Los Angeles during this time, since Paris to L.A. is much shorter than Paris to Sydney to L.A.

Regarding time factor, I think Ariadne designed the 1st level maze city to be very difficult for projections to reach the shore below the bridge, so the whole team could wait it out safely until the sedation expires.

Spoilers within

Posted: Aug 26, 2010 12:47 am
by JimH
Glee Plane wrote: Cobb's team planned the entire Fischer job in the warehouse in Paris. When they heard about Maurice Fischer's death, they had to fly to Sydney then fly to Los Angeles. Cobb could have arranged for Miles to meet him in Los Angeles during this time, since Paris to L.A. is much shorter than Paris to Sydney to L.A.

Regarding time factor, I think Ariadne designed the 1st level maze city to be very difficult for projections to reach the shore below the bridge, so the whole team could wait it out safely until the sedation expires.
Thanks - I think that's brilliant :agreeing: Before we started analyzing it, I was sure the final scene was "reality". But then doubt crept in. Now I'm back again to feeling good about the ending. :biggrin:

Spoilers within

Posted: Aug 26, 2010 2:17 am
by HeartHer
JimH wrote:
GiveHimTheKick wrote: A lot of the rest of it I think we just have to put down to the fact that it is infact a movie and nothing else. Like for instance, one you didn't mention, when they are all sitting by the side of the river drying off after escaping from the van, Fischer just sits there, even though he thinks he's been kidnapped. He doesn't try and run or anything. There's about a million different ways we could probably interpret this but it is indeed a movie.

And for the record, the chances are Cobb would take his children and re-locate somewhere safe.
OK - but just to harp on "what is reality" here, how does Michael Cane's character know to meet Cobb as he checks into the airport? He happens to be in the US (but normally lives & works in Paris) and he knows which airport to be at and the time too :rolleye:
It's not like we saw every last thing Cobb did from the beginning of the whole ordeal to the end. His dad knew about the plan since he had introduced Ariadne to Dom, he likely contacted him and had him pick him up.

Now for why he was in the US instead of France, there's a simple answer for that. He was going home for a break. Remember, Cobb dropped some presents off with his father to take home to the kids. He was obviously headed back to the US at the time :totalhappy: .


JimH wrote:
Glee Plane wrote: Cobb's team planned the entire Fischer job in the warehouse in Paris. When they heard about Maurice Fischer's death, they had to fly to Sydney then fly to Los Angeles. Cobb could have arranged for Miles to meet him in Los Angeles during this time, since Paris to L.A. is much shorter than Paris to Sydney to L.A.

Regarding time factor, I think Ariadne designed the 1st level maze city to be very difficult for projections to reach the shore below the bridge, so the whole team could wait it out safely until the sedation expires.
Thanks - I think that's brilliant :agreeing: Before we started analyzing it, I was sure the final scene was "reality". But then doubt crept in. Now I'm back again to feeling good about the ending. :biggrin:
Well that's good, I hope the explanation of why his father was back in the US solidifies your belief even more :agreeing: .

Spoilers within

Posted: Aug 26, 2010 6:54 am
by UCFRdWarrior
After seeing Inception at least 5 times....and reading all the posts (here and NolanFans)...I have come to this conclusion which few have thought of
► Show Spoiler

Spoilers within

Posted: Aug 26, 2010 8:17 am
by HeartHer
UCFRdWarrior wrote:After seeing Inception at least 5 times....and reading all the posts (here and NolanFans)...I have come to this conclusion which few have thought of
► Show Spoiler
Hmmmm very interesting idea, but...

EDIT: Wait why are we putting these in Spoilers? The topic is called "Spoilers Within", I'm taking mine out dammit :p.

The first scene is the same as the final dream sequence where Cobb is talking to Saito. It's the exact same. Cobb says he's come to remind him of something, that they were young together, and that his world is not real. It showed that scene first because it's an important turning point, then they flashed back to everything that happened, basically it was Saito remembering it all after his time in limbo, the whole film was a sort of flashback to where the story between Cobb and Saito started.

I think it's pretty obvious that's what was going on, but to each his own :totalhappy: .

Spoilers within

Posted: Aug 26, 2010 8:56 am
by Dominik
GiveHimTheKick wrote:And for the record, the chances are Cobb would take his children and re-locate somewhere safe.
Well, let's not forget one critical element: the grandma. She was the person who didn't want to speak with Cobb on the phone and told the children to hang up. According to the shooting script, she is the reason why the children never visited him outside the US. The grandma wouldn't let them out of the country. This brings me to another point: where is she in the final scene?!
HeartHer wrote:His dad knew about the plan since he had introduced Ariadne to Dom, he likely contacted him and had him pick him up.
To me? :D Yes, this was a great scene. Just kidding.
HeartHer wrote:EDIT: Wait why are we putting these in Spoilers? The topic is called "Spoilers Within", I'm taking mine out dammit :p.
You never heard of a spoiler within a spoiler? :laugh:

Spoilers within

Posted: Aug 26, 2010 9:11 am
by HeartHer
Dominik wrote:
GiveHimTheKick wrote:And for the record, the chances are Cobb would take his children and re-locate somewhere safe.
Well, let's not forget one critical element: the grandma. She was the person who didn't want to speak with Cobb on the phone and told the children to hang up. According to the shooting script, she is the reason why the children never visited him outside the US. The grandma wouldn't let them out of the country. This brings me to another point: where is she in the final scene?!
HeartHer wrote:His dad knew about the plan since he had introduced Ariadne to Dom, he likely contacted him and had him pick him up.
To me? :D Yes, this was a great scene. Just kidding.
HeartHer wrote:EDIT: Wait why are we putting these in Spoilers? The topic is called "Spoilers Within", I'm taking mine out dammit :p.
You never heard of a spoiler within a spoiler? :laugh:
Wow I feel so dumb, I even thought about how when I wrote Dom someone would joke it was you yet I stood staring at my monitor for a straight minute trying to figure out what you were saying... Hahahaha yes the scene where you were introduced to Ariadne was one of my favorites too. I'm sure it's occurred to you that similar to Dom Cobb you could be Dom Kepp right :laugh: ?

Haha spoiler within a spoiler :lol2: .

Spoilers within

Posted: Aug 26, 2010 2:51 pm
by Glee Plane
UCFRdWarrior wrote:After seeing Inception at least 5 times....and reading all the posts (here and NolanFans)...I have come to this conclusion which few have thought of
► Show Spoiler
One question I would have with this is that did Saito just dream up a complicated inception job on his competitor?

Spoilers within

Posted: Aug 26, 2010 8:19 pm
by GiveHimTheKick
Inception takes a lot of skill and even if you are as talented as Cobb at it, it takes an entire team and months of preparation. Saito just didn't have that.

One thing that I've just been thinking about however, in regard to the ending, it's not whether the spinning top falls or not, it's the idea of the spinning top as a totem.

A totem is an object of certain complexity that only YOU know the exact weight and balance of, so nobody can impersonate it in a dream, so therefore it lets you know when you're in somebody else's dream. BUT, doesn't that mean it can't tell you if you're in your own dream? So can't it be completely ruled out as a device used to attempt to figure out whether the end is a dream or not?

Spoilers within

Posted: Aug 26, 2010 8:55 pm
by HeartHer
GiveHimTheKick wrote:Inception takes a lot of skill and even if you are as talented as Cobb at it, it takes an entire team and months of preparation. Saito just didn't have that.

One thing that I've just been thinking about however, in regard to the ending, it's not whether the spinning top falls or not, it's the idea of the spinning top as a totem.

A totem is an object of certain complexity that only YOU know the exact weight and balance of, so nobody can impersonate it in a dream, so therefore it lets you know when you're in somebody else's dream. BUT, doesn't that mean it can't tell you if you're in your own dream? So can't it be completely ruled out as a device used to attempt to figure out whether the end is a dream or not?
I'm pretty sure Cobb said that in his dreams as well it would just keep spinning, only in reality did it fall.

Spoilers within

Posted: Aug 26, 2010 9:47 pm
by GiveHimTheKick
THANK YOU. My months of brain busting nonsense is now over. :totalhappy:

Spoilers within

Posted: Aug 26, 2010 10:16 pm
by HeartHer
GiveHimTheKick wrote:THANK YOU. My months of brain busting nonsense is now over. :totalhappy:
Oh but don't take my word for it go see it again, maybe I'm wrong :laugh: .

I'm gonna buy the shooting script whenever I find it so I'll be able to really analyze everything and figure it out.

Spoilers within

Posted: Aug 27, 2010 2:25 am
by JimH
Dominik wrote:Next question; Cobb wakes up unattached to Saito, which means the PASIV device has apparently been removed by the stewardess a while ago. Probably to make sure Fischer jr. didn't see it. But is it possible to "share" a dream with someone if there is no dream machine connecting you. I think this question has never been answered throughout the movie. Perhaps it was Saito's projection of Cobb who convinced him to take a "leap of faith"


I saw Inception again today (losing count - 5th time I think) and payed more attention to the last 15 mins or so this time. I was concerned that they didn't spend enough time at level dream (van sequence) compared to the flight time (reality). But now I think it's only Cobb and Saito that wakeup as they're on landing approach. This late wakeup ties in to them coming out of Limbo. The rest of the team awaken together, and earlier, then presumably just enjoy the flight. This was not shown but could be assumed. So when Cobb and Saito awaken they are not hooked up to the PASIV device - it's already been removed earlier, but they need to die in Limbo to awaken to reality. The others awakened earlier after their kick sequence and after removal of the sedative and it's effects.

So I still think Cobb ends up back in reality and a free man. :)

Spoilers within

Posted: Aug 27, 2010 2:50 am
by HeartHer
JimH wrote:
Dominik wrote:Next question; Cobb wakes up unattached to Saito, which means the PASIV device has apparently been removed by the stewardess a while ago. Probably to make sure Fischer jr. didn't see it. But is it possible to "share" a dream with someone if there is no dream machine connecting you. I think this question has never been answered throughout the movie. Perhaps it was Saito's projection of Cobb who convinced him to take a "leap of faith"


I saw Inception again today (losing count - 5th time I think) and payed more attention to the last 15 mins or so this time. I was concerned that they didn't spend enough time at level dream (van sequence) compared to the flight time (reality). But now I think it's only Cobb and Saito that wakeup as they're on landing approach. This late wakeup ties in to them coming out of Limbo. The rest of the team awaken together, and earlier, then presumably just enjoy the flight. This was not shown but could be assumed. So when Cobb and Saito awaken they are not hooked up to the PASIV device - it's already been removed earlier, but they need to die in Limbo to awaken to reality. The others awakened earlier after their kick sequence and after removal of the sedative and it's effects.

So I still think Cobb ends up back in reality and a free man. :)
Exactly. Well said. Everyone else had already gone through the kicks and been woken up. Saito and Cobb were still stuck in limbo and just had to wake up.

Spoilers within

Posted: Aug 27, 2010 3:16 am
by Glee Plane
JimH wrote:So when Cobb and Saito awaken they are not hooked up to the PASIV device - it's already been removed earlier, but they need to die in Limbo to awaken to reality. The others awakened earlier after their kick sequence and after removal of the sedative and it's effects.
Another piece of evidence to support this is Cobb's attempted extraction on Saito in the train in Japan. The team failed and unplugged the device, but Saito woke up much later on the train after the whole team left.

Spoilers within

Posted: Aug 28, 2010 11:37 am
by HeartHer
This may also just be me and how much I pay attention to music in movies, but was the music all the way up to the end just a bit too hopeful and happy for the ending to not be reality? The way it ends on a major key makes it hard to believe that it's not. If it hadn't been reality I'm pretty sure it would've ended with much more discord, two contradictory minor notes.

Again it might just be me, but it makes sense in my head.