What do you think of Hayley?

Hayley vs. Jeff - Here are the Hard Candy topics
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Irina
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Feb 17, 2009 12:07 pm

Is she a good person or not? :noclue:
Last edited by Irina on Feb 18, 2009 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Feb 17, 2009 4:23 pm

That is a good question! We could also start something about Jeff, too. Maybe some other time, though.

I think Hailey is like a lot of girls her age. Tired of the way the world is. However, she's one of the only ones to do something about it. Although one might say Jeff deserved what he got, who's to say what is right or wrong? Depending on your beliefs, the answer is probably some thing like a higher being (like God), society and the police, or you might say "Hey! I do what I want!" If your mindset is the latter, then Hailey is probably a good person, because she did what she felt she needed to do. If your mindset is one or both of the previous two, then you would probably disagree with what she did. I am one to believe in God. I see Hailey's point- No one should be able to get away with something like that. Also, we didn't get to learn a lot about Hailey's past. She could have been serious when saying "4 out of 5 doctors agree I'm insane." I guess what I'm saying is this- You can't really judge someone with only a short time being spent with them, and even then it all depends. Criminals will be a friend with another criminal, because in their mind, that other criminal is a good person.

Sorry for my rant. I just felt like ranting.
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Feb 18, 2009 9:19 am

I don't believe in God, but I don't think Haley is a good person either. I do think that one's actions have consequences in life if not in death, and despite her beliefs that she was doing good in the world, I don't think she could just go on to live a normal life after doing something like that. The kind of bitterness and rage that it would take to make those kinds of decisions is something that is not going to be quenched easily. I can see her eventually becoming some sort of Dexter-type serial killer, constantly feeling the need to satisfy her undying thirst for vengeance. I'm not necessarily saying that she's "evil" per se, but I think she's obviously an extremely disturbed person, and whatever is driving her to do these things will most likely consume her gradually as she gets older.

Of course, that's all conjecture considering it's a work of fiction, but looking at it realistically, someone who did something like this would probably not just be able to do it once and then shrug it off for the rest of their life.
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Lori
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Feb 18, 2009 11:09 am

Hmmm, I think that Hayley is spelt like that :yes:

I'm just shittin ya - welcome to the board Irina. I myself am not going to comment on this as there was a similar thread on the old board and I've said all I needed to say there. It got pretty heated (love ya Gunns :wink: ) so I'll back away from this one :agreeing: :wink:
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Feb 18, 2009 11:21 am

Lori wrote:Hmmm, I think that Hayley is spelt like that :yes:
You're turning into me Lori :laugh:

It's hard to say whether she's a good person or not. She might believe that her intentions were good, but a lot of evil people have thought that about their own actions. Personally I think she'd eventually regret what she did.
Last edited by LostPilgrim on Feb 18, 2009 11:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Feb 18, 2009 11:27 am

See this is why I love Hard Candy, you can get so deep in an argument about it because of the ambiguity of the whole thing.

It's funny how we have doubts about whether what Hayley did was right or wrong, I mean if it were someone like Batman or Spiderman doing the torturing, we would be rooting for him/her all the way, of course we'd still be watching with disdain but just because Hayley is a normal girl (a bit psycho compared to other girls but still.) we have doubts about our morals.

What Hayley did was definitely wrong, but think about what Jeff could have possibly done. It's all about what they might have done.
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Feb 18, 2009 11:28 am

LostPilgrim wrote: You're turning into me Lori :laugh:
:panic:
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Feb 18, 2009 3:33 pm

Well,you know,I'm from Russia,so i can't speak english like you.But i will try!
As for me,i think that Hayley ;) is a strong person,but what will be with her in future?Such terrible memories...

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Feb 18, 2009 4:23 pm

Lori wrote:I'm just shittin ya - welcome to the board Irina. I myself am not going to comment on this as there was a similar thread on the old board and I've said all I needed to say there. It got pretty heated (love ya Gunns :wink: ) so I'll back away from this one :agreeing: :wink:
Hehe ;) That thread went way offtopic though.

If Jeff deserved to die, the society should have made that punishment and the way Hayley went about it was wrong. I don't believe in death penalty however and I'd like to think life is to important to waste it, even in twisted people like Jeff and Hayley. In short: Hayley is a murderer, none of us know exactly what Jeff is but he's nothing good either.
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Feb 19, 2009 5:32 am

Baboon wrote:
LostPilgrim wrote:You're turning into me Lori :laugh:
:panic:
Nah, I've always been like that, I just don't do it all the time :laugh: And seeing as I've been me alot longer than you have been you Robo, that would mean that you've turned into me :purpleconfused: :laugh: :biggrin:
Gunnar wrote:Hehe ;) That thread went way offtopic though.
:giggle: :yes: It did indeed - like I am now... :biggrin:

I am really quite enjoying reading everyone's opinions on this though :agreeing:
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Feb 19, 2009 5:34 am

I like Hayley. She's cute and passionate, and I think she would be a lot of fun to be friends with.

I agree with you guys, Carlo and Irina, Hayley's probably a ticking time bomb headed toward some really awful end. But I feel that way a lot myself, so I like her. She means well. I don't actually believe in good, so I'm not sure what the question is asking. The cynic in me likes Hayley a lot, though. Is the girl dangerous? Sure. Might she do really scary things to me if she got mad at me? Absolutely. But would whatever she does to me be creative and destructive in a Tyler Durden sort of way and really, really interesting to be a part of? Yes. Yes, I think it would be.

In sum, Hayley = fun!!! :super: :present:

Now who else wants to join the Hayley Stark Fan Club? :proposetoast:

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Feb 19, 2009 6:33 am

if it were someone like Batman or Spiderman doing the torturing, we would be rooting for him/her all the way
Not to shift into comic book nerd mode here, but superheroes usually live by a code of ethics, and don't torture people for their own amusement. So, I'm not sure that's the best analogy to make.

Although, with Batman there is an interesting argument there, as he does often cross the lines of decency to do what he feels is right (although never quite to the extent as what Hayley did). I don't know if you've seen "The Dark Knight", but that's actually one of the main themes of the movie, as far as challenging the perceived boundaries of right and wrong. It deals with the idea that Batman has to make decisions that aren't always cut and dry in terms of ethics. And similarly, Batman does often seem to be driven by a deep-rooted need for vengeance (he became a vigilante crimefighter after his parents were killed in a mugging), although it never really borderlines on psychosis quite like it did with Hayley. Anyway, the point there is that you aren't necessarily just supposed to be on the hero's side all the time there. There's always a question of if he's really ultimately doing the right thing, as supposed to someone like Superman, who's always supposed to be so unwaveringly conscientious.

Ok, now back to the basement to continue work on my model Millenium Falcon. :laugh:
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Feb 19, 2009 2:00 pm

good sides: she's passionate, strong-willed, smart and determined
bad sides: she's a psychotic who advocates vigilantism for pedophiles and enjoys torturing people. :shocked:
Justice shouldn't go outside of a courtroom.
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Feb 20, 2009 2:05 am

I'm not sure I would say she 'enjoys' it. I would think she sees it as a necessary part of the 'job'.

She thinks she's doing the right thing - getting one more pedophile off the street. Pity she's crazy as a coconut :givethefinger2: :manic:

Such an awesome movie - so thought provoking!
wakarimasu wrote:Justice shouldn't go outside of a courtroom.
Yeah, somehow I don't think the laws perception of justice is harsh enough for Hayley :biggrin: :armed: :mwahaha: :uglyno:
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Feb 20, 2009 2:17 am

Lori wrote:
wakarimasu wrote:Justice shouldn't go outside of a courtroom.
Yeah, somehow I don't think the law's perception of justice is harsh enough :biggrin:
Not even remotely close. There has been something like 12 shootings in the past two weeks here in the Vancouver area. Image Its all people with past offenses involved and yet they walk the streets.
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Feb 20, 2009 2:18 am

bluetoes591 wrote:Not even remotely close. There has been something like 12 shootings in the past two weeks here in the Vancouver area. [ http://www3.telus.net/bluetoes591/smilies/icon_mark.gif ] Its all people with past offenses involved and yet they walk the streets.
Hmmm, makes you feel super safe huh?! :uhoh:
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Feb 20, 2009 2:21 am

Lori wrote:
bluetoes591 wrote:Not even remotely close. There has been something like 12 shootings in the past two weeks here in the Vancouver area. [ http://www3.telus.net/bluetoes591/smilies/icon_mark.gif ] Its all people with past offenses involved and yet they walk the streets.
Hmmm, makes you feel super safe huh?! :uhoh:
Actually I am somehow not bothered at all by this run of shootings. Its all gang on gang stuff, and while the possibility exists for somebody to be caught in the crossfire, at least the gangs are getting smaller. :laugh:
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Feb 20, 2009 2:23 am

It's good that you're seeing a positive side to the situation :laugh:
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Feb 20, 2009 2:37 am

Oh drats. I was about to post this before you guys got into your more interesting side-convo. Oh well. Bombs away.
Lori wrote:I'm not sure I would say she 'enjoys' it. I would think she sees it as a necessary part of the 'job'.

She thinks she's doing the right thing - getting one more pedophile off the street. Pity she's crazy as a coconut :givethefinger2: :manic:
I think that is one of the things that is so great about Ellen's performance. A lesser actress would just see Hayley as judgmental or cruel. But Ellen's Hayley judges very little. Instead, she just paints Hayley as an idealist...well, it is like you said so well Lori, it's part of her job. :angelface:
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Feb 20, 2009 5:35 am

bluetoes591 wrote:at least the gangs are getting smaller. :laugh:
Good point! :laugh: :biggrin:
miKe wrote:I think that is one of the things that is so great about Ellen's performance. A lesser actress would just see Hayley as judgmental or cruel. But Ellen's Hayley judges very little. Instead, she just paints Hayley as an idealist...well, it is like you said so well Lori, it's part of her job. :angelface:
:wink:

I love getting reminded of what an awesome talent EP is...! Not that I forget, but when you're not constantly thinking about her, it slips your mind of how inspirational and amazing she is as an actor.

Hayley seems to be pretty black and white (within her twisted insanity) and for someone so young as EP was when it was filmed, to have the insight into this disturbed character is really just astounding. She shows you Hayley's insecurities and reminds you of how young she really is even though she's so controlled. And contradicting that is almost a naivety in her thinking that the only punishment she sees for Jeff is ultimately, death. It's really a childlike attitude I think :noclue: Dunno, just thinking out loud...
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